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Another Elephant... or, A Forbidden Fact

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zirconia:
I recently had an interesting and friendly discussion with someone on another board in regard to transition, facial feminization surgery, and assimilation.

The person I spoke with did not originally want to get FFS. But in the end frequently getting "read" bothered her so much she decided to do it. She felt the environment where she works, with a high trans* population and a trans* nightspot just three blocks away may have contributed to people's heightened awareness and alertness.

She also separately commented that the increasing awareness in general makes it harder to attain stealth and get assimilated now than in the past. I sympathized, adding the obvious observation that in this sense the needs of those who wish to be out and proud are not in accord with those who only wish to live anonymously.

This was my closing comment:

That is tragic, and you may be right about the out and proud environment close to where you lived having been a factor.
In that sense, it would seem to me those who wish to just be anonymous and normal and those who are proud of and wish to proclaim their otherness truly do have conflicting needs.
And the ones who just wish to get assimilated always get the short end of the stick.

The struck out portions were promptly censored... LOL as were some other portions that also pointed out  the inevitable conflict.
The reasons given were as follows:

If you disapprove of people who are Transgender, Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual; or activities which, or individuals who cross gender boundaries; take your arguments to a more appropriate website.
and
Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others.


LOL. I disapproved of no-one. And that those who do wish to be assimilated are put in an increasingly disadvantaged position by society's increased alertness is an incontrovertible fact. And in that sense, it would truly seem to me those who wish to just be anonymous and normal and those who are proud of and wish to proclaim their otherness truly do have conflicting needs.

But... that subject seems to be anathema in the transosphere.


I had to laugh at the further justification... note the words I underlined below.


--- Quote ---While yes someone being out and proud may initially make things harder on you wanting to be stealth, it makes things easier and safer for us and for people yet to come out down the road. People fear what they don't understand.
--- End quote ---

To me this seems a clear suggestion that "the sub-segment of our community" that wishes to be assimilated is less deserving than others. Which makes the second reason given rather hypocritical.

My points were directed at the collateral damage caused by activism. Not individuals. And given activism's ongoing goal to continuously increase awareness, the word "initially" in the response seems extremely contradictory. Does the responder have inside information that the activists at some point intend to lower people's awareness in order to help those who wish to be assimilated? And if so, is she willing to explain how do they intend to do that?

The conversation is still ongoing, so I'll update this if it turns out I am wrong... or if something else amusing comes up. Or if I'm banned...

---

Ah...❤️❤️❤️
An update...

I just received what the site owner states is the final word on the matter... and her reply once again completely ignores the fact that the moderation action itself clearly violates the site's own TOS. Here it is:


--- Quote ---You post violated the terms and condition of the site. It was properly moderated. That is the end of it.
--- End quote ---

I guess some subgroups may be considered less deserving with impunity... LOL

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”― George Orwell, Animal Farm

Kiera:

--- Quote from: zirconia on June 30, 2020, 08:56:53 PM ---I recently had an interesting and friendly discussion. But...that subject seems to be anathema in the transosphere.
--- End quote ---

     The BORG is not pretty z how dare you desire assimilation with the enemy 'humanity'! You WILL join our collective, 'individualism' is dead, or else YOU will not be associated with US at all! (How true can only wish?)
--- Quote ---""
--- End quote ---

Thai MtF's? They do not seem to tolerate "LGBT" very well at all! That part 'bout "detransition" is probably true per "family demands", it's a choice that many later do make as, unlike here, a "late transitioner" is practically unheard of due to their "society's standards" being much . . (what's the word?) higher more "normal/traditional" than ours?
[quote from hsts in Singapore]
"I do not know any lesbian or older transitioners
in real life in Singapore but they do exist, but rarely
are given the go ahead to transtion."
(ps: lol Never mind what they actually say do I indeed love Trump and Fox news simply because of the talented, beautiful women they seem to hire? Whatever happened to "natural selection" apparently, if one cannot make it as either "a man" or "a woman", you can always join the whiny, poor me let's demonstrate 'crats instead?)

Dena:
Welcome to the world of over moderation. I can tell you who made the decision and this is far from the first misjudgment to happen. In the past there were several less biassed people in the loop and this would would have never been acted on. The person who made the initial call has no idea of what's involved in remaining in the background because they have always been public.

I have seen people who had to disrupt their life and move on several times to reestablish a stealth identity. The basic rule we have lived by for years of never outing another has been forgotten. Indirectly this applies to a group outing as well as an individual outing.

I feared something like this would become a problem when Jenner came out. Suddenly a spot light was on us. People started looking more closely for flaws. Women were sometimes called MTF even thought they were born female. Bathrooms which we never had much of a problem with had bathroom laws passed. People made games outing transgender people. In some cases it became more difficult to alter your birth certificate.

I am not sure why Jenner went public but by going public, it became much more difficult for those who wished to fade into the wood work.

You are right and the call made by the others was wrong. Unfortunately you will have to live with the decision as long as you continue to use the site. I speak from experance on this as they are unwilling to look at things from other viewpoints once their mind is made up.

zirconia:
Hi Dena


--- Quote from: Dena on July 01, 2020, 03:48:45 PM ---Welcome to the world of over moderation. I can tell you who made the decision and this is far from the first misjudgment to happen. In the past there were several less biassed people in the loop and this would would have never been acted on. The person who made the initial call has no idea of what's involved in remaining in the background because they have always been public.
--- End quote ---

LOL. True.


--- Quote from: Dena on July 01, 2020, 03:48:45 PM ---I have seen people who had to disrupt their life and move on several times to reestablish a stealth identity. The basic rule we have lived by for years of never outing another has been forgotten. Indirectly this applies to a group outing as well as an individual outing.
--- End quote ---

Yes. Which is why I need to move after surgery. It's just not the same.


--- Quote from: Dena on July 01, 2020, 03:48:45 PM ---You are right and the call made by the others was wrong. Unfortunately you will have to live with the decision as long as you continue to use the site. I speak from experance on this as they are unwilling to look at things from other viewpoints once their mind is made up.
--- End quote ---

Thank you. Yes.

Sometimes I just can't resist speaking the truth, though. Even if quietly. A bad habit, I guess... ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

Kiera:

--- Quote from: zirconia on July 01, 2020, 04:19:36 PM ---Yes. Which is why I need to move after surgery. It's just not the same.  ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

--- End quote ---

     z do you truly believe that? That people still give up everything, move away just to attain total stealth? How many people do you think have absolutely nothing to lose? Does anybody? Or you? What about "family"?

If you live in a "liberal" area then I'd say yes, definitely
move, but then again not just for "stealth" reasons with
overall safety & security being my biggest concern.
I find that to be a scary thought even when younger it was NEVER an option with me. Even after FFS your other forum friend wasn't totally successful were you suggesting it's because of where she chose to remain? A more openly liberal, politically "active" area like in a larger city?
--- Quote from: Karen ---"
--- End quote ---

Also always considered myself fortunate to have lived in more educated & affluent conservative areas that are more "accepting" of diversity overall.

And what is SRS really going to accomplish? What do you think will change? Possibly better sex life only? But not "disclose"? FFS is definitely not "the holy grail" have a close friend in "group" who also did a BA with Dr "O" and was very unhappy with the results, still is to this day with many "regrets".

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