Community Conversations > General Topics
Zirconia just joined the Susan's Permaban Club!
Complete:
--- Quote ---....the most divisive thing I have seen in online forums that has sunk more than few was believe that some were setting up a T* hierarchy, with stealth perfectly passable post-ops at the top.
--- End quote ---
I actually agree with you on this. Where l think we might disagree is on the source of this fallacious belief.
I also agree that...
--- Quote ---Anything that even hints at something like that would be a threat to a general board like that (never mind the owner's income in this case!) I have seen it tear forums apart ...
--- End quote ---
The problem with this classic false flag/red herring is that the "offended" party sets out or defines/creates an offence, blames an innocent party whose appearance/accomplishments/or perceived status they envy, then demonize and ostracized them.
This deplorable, devious tactic effectively removes those whose very being loudly proclaims the fallacy of their claims.
--- Quote --- those discussions can be very difficult, highly emotional, and hurtful fro some as well as controversial,
--- End quote ---
Gee....l guess "transition" is not any of those things. Can someone so fragile that they cannot endure a "difficult", or "controversial" online discussion or debate emotionally ready for the real life stresses of gender transition?
zirconia:
--- Quote from: Maddie on July 17, 2020, 09:46:22 AM ---They are horrified of being questioned.. Must be rough. Too bad for them and their life.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Rejection of questioning does make it hard to see truth, doesn't it?
--- Quote from: karen_A on July 17, 2020, 05:50:19 PM ---I obviously can not say for sure... BUT i will tell you that one the years the most divisive thing I have seen in online forums that has sunk more than few was believe that some were setting up a T* hierarchy, with stealth perfectly passable post-ops at the top.
Anything that even hints at something like that would be a threat to a general board like that (never mind the owner's income in this case!) I have seen it tear forums apart ...
--- End quote ---
Hmmmm... OK.
But... the subject was the purpose, meaning and proper use of diagnostic codes in the field of medicine. How is that related to transhierarchies? Or ridicule toward anyone's identity or course of treatment?
As for difficulty of moderation... Dena, if you don't mind, which parts of the above post do you think you'd have censored, and how would you have gone about it? Alternatively, in what way would you have intervened?
--- Quote from: Complete on July 17, 2020, 08:25:18 PM ---The problem with this classic false flag/red herring is that the "offended" party sets out or defines/creates an offence, blames an innocent party whose appearance/accomplishments/or perceived status they envy, then demonize and ostracized them.
This deplorable, devious tactic effectively removes those whose very being loudly proclaims the fallacy of their claims.
--- End quote ---
I believe that to at least in part be the reason the member I mentioned stopped posting. Seeing things like that doesn't feel nice. I can't understand why people seem more apt to treat them like objects of hate than sources of wisdom and motivation.
--- Quote from: Complete on July 17, 2020, 08:25:18 PM ---Gee....l guess "transition" is not any of those things. Can someone so fragile that they cannot endure a "difficult", or "controversial" online discussion or debate emotionally ready for the real life stresses of gender transition?
--- End quote ---
LOL.
Kiera:
Well, it seems @Maddie is the last/lone survivor?
.
karen_A:
--- Quote from: zirconia on July 18, 2020, 08:13:41 AM ---Yes. Rejection of questioning does make it hard to see truth, doesn't it?
Hmmmm... OK.
But... the subject was the purpose, meaning and proper use of diagnostic codes in the field of medicine. How is that related to transhierarchies? Or ridicule toward anyone's identity or course of treatment?
--- End quote ---
As i said nothing at even hints of it could be an issue... and I think the way you were talking about the codes could see to hint of that to someone predisposed to worry about or feel potentially slighted by that. Anything that subdivides T diagnoses coudl seem to be headed in that direction to people predisposed to think that,
--- Quote ---As for difficulty of moderation... Dena, if you don't mind, which parts of the above post do you think you'd have censored, and how would you have gone about it? Alternatively, in what way would you have intervened?
--- End quote ---
As I thought I explained, what I thought about was when those type of discussion really got going... IMO this case was an over reaction because they thought you were going to make tha kind of "trouble" there.
I believe that to at least in part be the reason the member I mentioned stopped posting. Seeing things like that doesn't feel nice. I can't understand why people seem more apt to treat them like objects of hate than sources of wisdom and motivation.
--- Quote ---Quote from: Complete on Yesterday at 08:25:18 PM
--- Quote ---Gee....l guess "transition" is not any of those things. Can someone so fragile that they cannot endure a "difficult", or "controversial" online discussion or debate emotionally ready for the real life stresses of gender transition?
--- End quote ---
LOL.
--- End quote ---
I am disappointed in teh lack of understanding and empathy in those comments... What about someone who has transitioned and is having problems passing, is depressed because of how things are going and then get put down by "successful" post-ops (which early on many put on pedestals)?
Where is the understanding, empathy and heart? At different times people in active transition CAN be in fragile places. Lots of very traumatic things happen for many early on!
-Karen
zirconia:
--- Quote from: Kiera on July 18, 2020, 08:21:44 AM ---Well, it seems @Maddie is the last/lone survivor? I was orginally only BANNED 1 year so will see what happens come Christmas.
--- End quote ---
Welcome if you will... ❤️
--- Quote from: Kiera on July 18, 2020, 08:21:44 AM ---Is "stealth" and keeping "under the radar"
the same thing?
--- End quote ---
Hmmmm...
A non-passing acquaintance lives a solitary life, venturing out mainly at hours when people are asleep. And avoids unnecessary contact with the world at large. That I'd class keeping under the radar.
As for stealth... it was very concisely and nicely described by the person whose posts I was researching as an intermediary step before assimilation. I thought that made sense.
--- Quote from: karen_A on July 18, 2020, 09:58:22 AM ---As i said nothing at even hints of it could be an issue... and I think the way you were talking about the codes could see to hint of that to someone predisposed to worry about or feel potentially slighted by that. Anything that subdivides T diagnoses coudl seem to be headed in that direction to people predisposed to think that.
--- End quote ---
What I said about diagnostic codes and their use is a simple, easily verifiable fact. I feel that denying facts is to live in delusion. And I feel promulgating false information to be irresponsible. But I guess that is beside the point.
If, as you seem to think, the ban was a pre-emptive measure to prevent what I was "going to do" in the future, I find claiming it was due to "ridiculing a transgender person's identity and course of treatment" rather.... well, I can't even come up with a good word. A blatant, bare-faced lie? Or can you suggest a better, gentler and more appropriate expression?
--- Quote from: zirconia on July 18, 2020, 08:13:41 AM ---I believe that to at least in part be the reason the member I mentioned stopped posting. Seeing things like that doesn't feel nice. I can't understand why people seem more apt to treat them like objects of hate than sources of wisdom and motivation.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: zirconia on July 18, 2020, 08:13:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: Complete on July 17, 2020, 08:25:18 PM ---Gee....l guess "transition" is not any of those things. Can someone so fragile that they cannot endure a "difficult", or "controversial" online discussion or debate emotionally ready for the real life stresses of gender transition?
--- End quote ---
LOL.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: karen_A on July 18, 2020, 09:58:22 AM ---I am disappointed in teh lack of understanding and empathy in those comments... What about someone who has transitioned and is having problems passing, is depressed because of how things are going and then get put down by "successful" post-ops (which early on many put on pedestals)?
Where is the understanding, empathy and heart? At different times people in active transition CAN be in fragile places. Lots of very traumatic things happen for many early on!
--- End quote ---
Karen...
It saddens me that you feel laughing at a situation that is ridiculous indicates absence of understanding, empathy or heart.
While discussions on the boards have greatly confused me, they never made me cry. On the other hand, I've cried through the night until the morning more times than I can remember over the pain of what I was about to do. The price I knew I'd pay.
And Complete was there the whole time, every time. With me, at the other end of the line. Offering no platitudes, but just the truth. Jagged, cold and raw. But with incredible sympathy, care and warmth.
During a brief private interaction between Elisabeth and myself she also offered me the truth. And concern about what she believed might be mistaken motivation. Knowing there was a possibility I might hate her for that. She didn't try to wrap me in cotton wool, but instead tried to make sure that I looked at things with a clear mind. No sugar. But no malice either.
They are where I want to be. No.... they are where I need to be. The only place that can possibly give me peace. They both told me what the path they took was like. And each warned me in her own way I couldn't cross over without paying the price.
That price is high. Much of the talk on the forums revolves around how to avoid paying it. Those most vocal advocate a completely different destination. A path and destination that terrified me. A destination that they themselves somewhere know to be different. And blame their plight and choice on a myriad factors.
It really is of no concern to me what you think of me. If you indeed feel I lack understanding, empathy and heart then so be it. But even I went back to Susan's in part because I felt concern about some there who were in dire enough straits that platitudes simply could not help. When in hell, stories of sunflowers are useless. I don't know whether I could have helped either, in the end. But read nuances and pose questions I could. And that is the best I could offer. I hate not ever knowing what their fate will be... but at the same time relieved that I no longer need to spend energy on filtering out the cacophony of confusion that seems to only increase with time.
Let me close with a quote I gleaned from the research that ultimately led to my ban. To me it crystallizes the message of everyone who has been assimilated to those still searching.
It isn't about age dear. I requires a willingness, an anxiousness to let go of the old mind-set, to recognize you are "starting over", and to be willing to start from ZERO. The more a person tries to hang on to the less they will "transition".
Is that not a clear message of hope?
Edit: Clarity
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version