How Susan of Susans.org really feels...

[zirconia]

I didn't realize this is how Susan really feels...

What follows is a quote directed by her to a Susan's' member and another woman who joined to start the thread, and according to the member insinuates ”that transsexuals are delusional, comparing transsexuals to someone who wants to be and believes to be a rhinoceros or pink elephant, has called MTF transsexuals "men" and has used male pronouns against us, originally she made comments to a Gay transman by using female pronouns towards him and calling him "female/woman," calling him a Nazi doctor, calling his partner a "<not allowed>," attacking my religious beliefs (I'm very much influenced by Wicca), and has used Michael J. Bailey's book 'The Man Who Would Be Queen' in defense

Now... read and wonder...

Ladies, after reviewing the Wikipedia thread that started this subject I want to be sure offer both of you some very good advice. It's ok to agree to disagree. Civility has never hurt anyones argument. On this site we have room for every point of view. Each of you brings a unique point of view to the Wikipedia's HRT discussions, you are welcome to contribute them here as well. One of you represents the Transgender view and one of you represent the Genetically born woman's point of view. That's what the Wikipedia and my web site is all about. Together you two should be able to work together to put together a comprehensive article of which both of you can agree with.

Taking into consideration the views of the new member, the quote above might be a good one to use as reference should anyone feel the need to protest heavy handed moderation on Susan's. I took a backup copy of the page just in case one of the current moderators suddenly feels it should be censored. Because obviously they're working against what Susan herself says her site is about.

Right?

（╹◡╹）♡

[Dena]

It's one thing to say high and mighty words but it's different living by them. Susan isn't a great thinker or writer and I have experienced cases where she wrote one thing and latter when I reviewed it, the words and the meaning had been changed. The latest occurrence happened as part of my ban where Susan made a commitments then latter changed the terms without directly informing me of the changes.

I also had my words incorrectly understood and was punished for something I didn't say. I was then punished for stating the truth about fixing the issues of the site and the need to make changes to the site in order to draw users and donors back to the site. If you don't agree with things the way Susan sees it, you are wrong and you don't have the option of arguing your point. When you have the power and you're losing the argument, it's much easer to ban somebody, making it go away rather than deal with the fact that you're wrong.

I don't regret what I posted and said because they were words that needed to be said if the site it to be saved over the long term. I would say them again and I realized when I said them that a ban was a likely outcome. It's Susan's site and she she has decided on a harsh future rather than a much better one. I may have done much more than I needed to but I can sleep at night know that I said what others should have said but didn't. Susan has now heard the truth even if she doesn't accept it and will have live by those decisions.

The one thing that troubles me is the site. Many people have found what they needed and Susan's decision will result in many people not being able to find the help they need in the future. I can only hope that when Susan's is no longer there, these people will be able to find the help they need elsewhere.

If that text vanishes, it's not going to be another administrator or staff member that removes it. Susan is the where final decisions are made and no staff member will touch one of her posts. It will be Susan who removes the post if you can no longer find it.

[zirconia]

Hi, Dena

Yes. I've seen other posts that conflict as well. This one was so to the point and blatantly obvious though, that it was worth making a backup of the entire page. If it does disappear maybe I should post the copy someplace in its entirety just for fun. I know that in reality it won't make any difference where banning people is concerned—but it would sort of help expose the double standards and lack of sincerity. LOL.

By the way, I suspect that entire IP ranges that I've used have been banned... which would suggest I'm not very well liked by someone. （╹◡╹）♡

I've access to more than one proxy service provider, though, so even if they are interested enough in me to ban every one they suspect is mine, I believe that should I wish to I could continue to do research or even open new accounts for longer than the site can survive.

When searching the older threads I found it interesting that most of the people whose posts I found in any way meaningful have left. And I wonder how many of those who would appear to remain but are inactive have actually been banned...like almost everyone here has.

Oh, and do you happen to know whether Susan and the staff not only reads private messages but also intercepts them so the recipient won't get an e-mail notification? I did send one to someone I found very interesting, and sort of hope there's a possibility it may actually have reached her.

I guess the site can still provide help to those who find the current content and atmosphere palatable. However, the bias definitely has intensified in recent months...and e.g. the way several moderators ganged together in an attempt to ridicule the diagnosis thread to oblivion before they gave up and banned me felt not only unprofessional but also pretty sad. Had the undercurrent been like that when I registered I probably would have stayed away to start with and saved them the trouble.

٩( ᐛ )و

[Complete]

I also had my words incorrectly understood and was punished for something I didn't say. I was then punished for stating the truth about fixing the issues of the site and the need to make changes to the site in order to draw users and donors back to the site. If you don't agree with things the way Susan sees it, you are wrong and you don't have the option of arguing your point. When you have the power and you're losing the argument, it's much easer to ban somebody, making it go away rather than deal with the fact that you're wrong.

Truer words were never spoken. It is ashamed that those in power abuse that power to cover their own weaknesses and even worse, their refusal to admit their mistakes. At the very least that would allow others to not make those same mistakes and suffer harm from following or believing lies or false narratives.
This has always been my motivation for pushing back on transgender dogma. Much of it is just apologetics and convicted nonsense. Even hard science, empirical, peer reviewed EVIDENCE, is disparaged or simply shadow banned.
Try finding an original PDF of Benjamin's, The Transsexual Phenomenon, or the e-book, So You Want To Be A T-Girl?, or even The. Musings of Maria.
Doable, but nearly impossible.
This Hard Leftist tactic is being used in an immense way to insure the Leftist, "Democratic" Socialists wins our upcoming election and never loses again.
Just like the truth about transsexuals was lost to the miasma if lies and mis-information, l fear the America l grew up in, the land of hope and opportunity, will be lost forever.
Think it can't happen? Look at Venezuela.
In "the name of the people"....corrupt politicians in the country with the greatest oil wealth in the world became insanely wealthy while it's middle class was destroyed and the people can not even get clean water or toilet paper.
SAVE YOUR SCHOOLS! That is your children's future!

[Dena]

I don't think that Susan has a double standard or lack of sincerity though to others it might look like that. It's only for Susan to say exactly why I think that but like somebody who was abused as a child and now has PTSD, I think the circumstances of Susan's life make it so she doesn't fully realize what she is doing. This is the reason that the only emotion I feel for her is pity. I have done all I can to help her and the next move is up to her.

Zirconia, I don't think it's about you. Susan has had 15 years of spammers and there are at least 1,000 bans in place. I know because I was in the process of removing the unneeded ones but it takes time to determine if a ban is no longer needed. Spammers like the proxy servers for the same reason you do. Because there are so many bans, we always recommended people having problems accessing the site do it without a proxy server so we can open up a hole for them in the bans.

As for email, when your account is up for deletion or in a ban, all notifications are suppressed and members are unable to send you PMs. It's the way simple machines work and it can't be configured. As a moderator, when I needed to communicate with somebody in this state, I would need to grab their email address out of their profile and use that.

While I know how to get around the ban on me and I have gained read access to both sites, I don't attempt to create a new account on either site. I can watch the train wreck as a guest and keeping them guessing about me coming back in is better than confirming it. I will not return to either site other than under my original login.

[zirconia]

Hi Dena

It's one thing to say high and mighty words but it's different living by them."

This is a choice. Even if one's not a great thinker or writer.

Reading Susan's early posts I see more consideration toward members than I do now...so maybe she was poisoned by her long sojourn in the world of in-between. I know how unpleasant and distressing it feels, although from the opposite viewpoint, I guess. I rejected the labels where she claimed hers... and not fully transitioning while also unable to "pass" would naturally produce bias in favor of people who somehow resemble her. And just possibly also envy, distrust and resentment toward others.

I do acknowledge her for having run the site forever on her own. Especially if she poured all her resources into the site instead of transitioning. BUT... that was her decision. Delaying its launch and/or placing it on ice until she herself was whole were possibilities as well... and I'm sure the users would have understood.

The relief of accepting Cindy's suggestion to use the site to generate revenue probably distanced it from its original purpose. It became a source of income... not a labor of love. I wouldn't be surprised if those whose positions are favored donate more, or vice versa. Which would create further self-reinforcing bias.


All of the above is conjecture, of course... but the IP bans are not. I used to access the site directly from a few locations with normal dynamic IPs. After the ban, when attempting to access it as a guest before deleting the site cookie I got the same announcement... namely

Sorry zirconia, you are banned from using this forum!
TOS #5, ridiculing a transgender person's identity and course of treatment
This ban is not set to expire.

Without cookies each of my regular non-proxy IP ranges still throws the following type of message:

Sorry guest, you are banned from using this forum!
IP ban.
This ban is not set to expire.

... as also do those proxies I used in the past when logging on for other reasons as well.
IP addresses banned for spamming or other reasons generate a totally different message.

The number of banned IPs hasn't increased recently, however, so I guess the moderators' smoldering fury has since faded. LOL. But my movements on site are probably pretty distinctive, so if they were intent they'd probably be able to continue doing so at will. It would just hurt site income.


As for setting up dummy accounts... no.
I only mentioned the possibility because it would be impossible to tell who I am if I really set out to do it—which makes banning the IP addresses I've used inane.
Its only purpose is to be symbolically vindictive.


Where the PM question is concerned, I knew I was under close observation, as it wasn't uncommon to see several moderators on my posts very quickly after I made them. And that deletion of the old post (or posts) that I led them to really felt Orwellian. So when I wanted to talk with someone I always also gave a throw-away e-mail account I could be reached at should I be banned.

What I was curious about was whether Susan and/or moderators are not only in the habit of reading but also capable of editing or preventing PMs from being delivered. Because if mine were stopped, the recipients of course couldn't get them


Dena I respect you. Greatly. And deplore what Susan did to you. And after once leaving the transosphere behind only resumed posting thanks to you opening this site. Although expressing my feelings may have actually been detrimental where attracting other members is concerned... LOL

As I've probably said, now that my goal is in sight I'm pretty content to also just concentrate on life in the real world. And now mostly write just to leave footprints behind for anyone who like me may feel confused by the general offering.

Because I'm pretty sure I cannot be the only one like me left in the world.

But... should you wish haven to offer those eventually left adrift by Susan's' demise a new home I know it would be easier without the likes of me. So if at any time you feel it would be better to favor "conventional" points of view all you have to do is tell me. I will gladly move on.

I am no longer in great danger or need. I'm here because this is the only place I know where I feel comfortable speaking freely of how I experience things.

Thanks again for providing it.（╹◡╹）♡

Edit: Clarity

[Dena]

People's values can change over the short term. Somebody drinking or angry might say things that they latter regret. Long term personality changes can occur because of grief, pain, and other conditions far to numerous for me to attempt to list. I have had little contact with Susan in the last 5 years and no contact before that so my guess is the personality we see today hasn't always been there.

I must not have received an IP ban or my IP address moves around enough that the ban doesn't cover me. Probably for the best because I visit locations where other site members go and it wouldn't be good to have my ban proven them from accessing Susan's while they are in the hospital. I didn't think that IP address would block a guest but I guess your proof that they do.

PMs can only be viewed by an administrator and my guess is Susan is the only one that's reading them. Devlyn doesn't seem to have a very good grasp of how to use the administrator functions so unless she was instructed in how to read PMs, she may not know how to do it. In any case, even one person reading them is bad enough. The software would allow Susan to edit PMs however it's questionable if she would have the time to do it before you received your system notification. Besides that, the tool she is using only allows her to become you so what she can access would be what you could do as a member.  I think that under normal conditions, Susan really has very little interest in the site because you rarely see her visit it. Now days she seems to spend most of her time online working on her twitter account.

My personal belief is that a site needs "old timers". People who're post surgical have the experience to guid others. I look for people with open minds, experience, people skills and knowledge. I want them on the site to help others and because I might be able to talk a few into becoming staff members. I want them to know what I know but I would also like them to improve on what I might teach them. Most important, I probably have 20-30 years left but someday if this site works, I will need to pass it on to another. I would want that person to be at least as good as me and the way you do that is to ask questions and explore ideas just like you do. The answers may be difficult at time but that's true of obtaining most good things.

[Kirsteneklund7]

  Just read this thread and found it of great value. I personally hold no grudge against Susan for the private messages I had read or the ban I received.

 This thread confirms what I suspected all along about the SP website. On the SP site I felt a moral obligation to NOT self censor or kowtow to the draconian policies.

I always new a ban was on the cards and was glad I managed to keep in contact with Christine & Dena & Complete & Zirconia & others before the inevitable happened.

 I do worry about Susan herself though.

 Kind regards, Kirsten.