Author Topic: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...  (Read 789 times)

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Offline zirconia

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Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« on: March 20, 2020, 08:54:58 PM »
Real life experience... yes. Where I'm undergoing treatment this refers to the period between the diagnosis and recommendation for SRS. And its purpose is to let the patient know how living as the opposite sex feels like. To try it out before anything irreversible is done.

The goal is to dispel any fantasies. To allow those motivated by a fetish to realize that it has no bearing on real life. To give those who simply can't fit in a chance to fix things or reconsider.

And to show everyone else that life just goes on...

After the psychologist explained what lay ahead I asked whether she or the others had any specific changes in mind for me. She laughed and said that to experience a change I'd have to try to assume a male role. But that it would of course defeat the purpose.

Which is pretty much true for every girl who's just been born with this horrendous but fixable birth defect.

And... it definitely has been just a continuation. Although it has given me an opportunity to further distance myself from the very concept of ever having been anything but a woman. And to acclimate myself to a future of freedom from feeling wrong. And to prepare for the surgery...

Life just simply goes on. Because nothing about it or me has changed—as of yet. What will soon change both is being made whole.

It is only then that real life truly begins.

Stephanie

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2020, 05:37:48 AM »
Unfortunately, for many of us, at least in the USA, it isn't the WPATH standards per se, or even the surgeon’s requirements, but the insurance companies that drive the standards. Their requirements (assuming they cover GCS at all) are based on outdated publications or their own arbitrary decisions. I may have been able to get surgery earlier if my insurance company hadn't had the requirement of 18 months continuing therapy.

Interestingly enough, while my insurance company required one year of RLE, they never asked for proof. My surgeon's staff handled most of the communication with the company, and I was required to write a short bio for them, so maybe they shared it.

If you can self-pay, not an option for most of us, most surgeons know what's going on with the latest recommendations, and are more up-to-date on their prerequisites.


- Stephanie

Fixed garbled text 16 May 2020
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 03:21:58 PM by Christine »

Stephanie

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2020, 06:25:09 AM »
That always seemed like far more than a hardship to me. It seemed downright cruel. I'm not sure if I could have handled going full-time without the emotional and physical support of HRT. I can't pin a specific date on when I went full-time, but it was four or five months after starting HRT, and misgendering was still common. Without the new calmness and (minimal) self-confidence that HRT brought, I might not have made it through those tough times.


- Stephanie
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 03:23:35 PM by Christine »

Offline zirconia

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2020, 01:53:04 PM »
I originally wrote the above on another board because I was disturbed by a topic there claiming to discuss life after transition.

It begins with talk about no longer being misgendered, change of legal documentation, loss of "male privilege", emulating that "privilege" through authority, and then asks about whether other people have "similar experiences."

And to me that all seemed... pretty inconsequential.
OK. I'll be frank. Quite inconsequential. If any of that is a concern, why bother?

I've never understood "male privilege." And asserting authority in lieu of whatever it is sounds like striving for dominion over a monkey mountain... which, not being a monkey, I'm not interested in. Legal documentation... sure, but preparing for surgery is more important.

And I've always detested the word "misgendering." If anyone sees me as male, there's nothing "mis" about it—because it's that person's perception. It just means I've still got something superfluous to discard.

When writing I wanted to say that to me the "real life experience" (or "test") has mainly shown that nothing changes. Or almost nothing. Because it has made me increasingly aware that this is my life. And that it is a relief to not have to claim a position on the monkey mountain. And reconfirmed that the discomfort I still feel is physical.

Yes... it's true that people who knew me before all of this have changed their attitude a bit. Like insisting on doing things that I'm able to. Why should I object to that? If they do it well I'm glad to relax and thank them. And perhaps do something else in return. It doesn't diminish me in any way.

But... anyway... my first post was met with comments[/url] about people in one country being able to be women "just in their off time" and a question about whether I was "forced to go to work" (presumably "as a woman.")

The thing is, I don't see being a woman as something that can be turned on and off at will. That would seem schizophrenic. Unless I am, why would I transition in the first place? And... if I am, then what is there "to force?" I'm here because it's what I need... and I'm just relieved to no longer have to pretend.

In a sense to me the real life experience is a license and opportunity to shed whatever final shackles remain. I could have "finished" it at the earliest this month, but since circumstances dictate that I won't be able to have surgery for at least another six months anyway, stretching it by that amount makes no practical difference.

Since... again... it's mostly just life as it has been. And will be. Sans what surgery will bring...٩( ᐛ )و

If anyone's interested, I'll add my later posts from that thread here too.

Edit: Clarity

Edit: removed links to a former site 18 May 2020
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 10:35:12 AM by Christine »

Offline Maddie

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2020, 03:16:58 PM »
I feel similiar about misgendering.
And male privilege.  Not entirely sure what that is to me personally, or how much if any effect it ever had on my life, relationships, or employment.
Men and women have always seen my truth on some level

If you bring your other posts I will read them
Head up moving forward

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2020, 06:41:22 PM »
An excellent example of "male privilege" can be found on most any transgender "support" forum. It's quite easy to discern. A particularly telling clue is the chorus of recent or wannabe "transitioners" lecturing long term post-ops, (if they are even around), on how "life as a woman" should be.
Truly laughable.

Offline zirconia

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 02:46:12 AM »
Maddie,

Thank you for your interest. Much of what I've written has been in response to other things I've seen. This to the topic I linked to in my previous post.

The first thing that caught my attention was its title.... Day to day life of a former trans woman. If the author had already fully transitioned then it was in the wrong place. The content also irritated me because it was universes apart from what I needed or had felt foretokens of.

Around then talk about evil "gatekeepers" had also piqued my ire. Now... I may have hit the only truly caring medical team in the world, but I doubt it. I went to ask for help—not to demand treatment—and was met with genuine interest, respect, a clear wish to listen, and compassion... and found nothing about the evaluation demeaning or onerous.

Edit: I've said this before, but just to be clear... it was not easy or fun. Some of the hurt had been overwhelming enough that I'd buried it... and when the memories returned at home I'd cry for hours, or until someone found me. But... none of that was the doctors' doing. Just a part of facing the truth.

Still, I did feel safe to be absolutely open at all times. The doctors never led me on... only listened. Very attentively. I'd be surprised when the interviewer put her pen down, look at me for a moment, and say "That's the first time you ever told that to anyone, isn't it?" And I'd nod my assent, and cry.


I'd also felt pretty out of place at transrefuge after they banned Complete. So... with all that in mind, here is the continuation.

---

Quote from: Linde
As I wrote Zirconia, some of those trans women still look very much like men, and having to go with very strong male features to work in woman's clothing, could be rather negative for some people's mental condition. It is very hard for me to even imagine, and I am glad tat I never was forced to do this!  I don't know if you were in such a situation?

Hi, Linde

I thought trans women are "real women?" If so, aren't clothes irrelevant? How about the shoe store proprietress I wrote about here? She's not a whit womanly. But she "passes" as a woman.

Or... actually she doesn't. Because she is. And she can't switch it on and off.

I myself have pretended to be a man. Since forever. But I never could truly be. And finally knowing and admitting that was a relief.

Quote from: Linde
Force is thereby having be dressed up as a woman if the body is not nearly ready for it, and those people would rather have taken estrogen first to hopefully receive some of the changes from it prior for having to dressed and ct lik fmles in public.

I guess it's different in Germany, then. The doctors here do accommodate individual needs.

I needed real life experience to start instantly after my diagnosis. But one can choose to start later. Whenever one wants. Until and during which time one does have access to HRT and other non-surgical treatment. And psychiatric and psychological support as well.

Also, while one year is the official minimum, one can extend it—and some very successfully assimilated women have felt they should, and done so. After all, it is one's final opportunity to contemplate the rest of one's life. To acclimate, adjust... or reconsider.

As I've said, to me this whole evaluation and treatment process has been a truly wonderful, enlightening experience. And knowing I'm still in the hands of people who truly care about me feels safe and liberating. I believe it all to be incredibly worthwhile and beneficial to anyone willing to be completely honest and objective about oneself.

Quote from: Linde
You probably were as lucky as I was, to be finally able and allowed to go out as the person you are in reality, because our bodies were already there to be presented in female grab.  However, I know for my person know that I am different.  But most trans women do not have the advantage of an intersex condition when they change from men to women.  They are dysphoric, because of the condition of their body, which does not jive with their brain that wants to see the body as that of a female.
Again, for me that was not a problem, cause my body was pretty much all female already, I don't know about you?

LOL... I'm not like you. I did very much hope to be intersex but my karyotype turned out to be "normal, XY." That crushed me because I felt even XXY would have felt closer to what I needed to be. But... the doctor wisely told me it made no difference. That the treatment was the same. That what mattered was the way my brain is wired.

Unlike yours my body did not smoothly, comfortably and autonomously transform itself to female. What it did do was make me tremendously dysphoric. Enough so that I drove needles through my genitals and researched ways to give myself cancer. I'd stop eating completely for over a month at a time trying stave off and reverse puberty. And engaged in many other forms of "pain control." 

Perhaps partly due to that I did end up slight of frame, and people did eventually and gradually begin to see me as female. However, until I actually was safe in the knowledge of what I was, I dressed androgynously (...although since I had worked in the industry that probably went pretty far.) Any "exclusively female" garb would have made me feel like a masquerader. Or an impostor. A fake. A freak.

Because it's always been my body that's wrong. Not the clothes.
SRS is the only thing that will make the pain go away. Or at least alleviate it.

Quote from: Linde
We have to allow other trans women to live like they need to live without judging them, or put a qualifier in front of their transness!  We should not be the trans police!

As I told Lexxi here, being different is not better. Nor worse. Just different. Sometimes very different. Do you feel that makes me judgmental? If so, in what way?
And what qualifier were you thinking of?

As for "trans police"—on every forum I've been, everything and everyone seems accepted and warmly welcomed. But ONLY as long as one agrees with the majority's feelings and beliefs. Feelings and opinions that deviate from that common narrative do get attacked. And those attacks are almost invariably lauded. Very rarely is anyone who attacks someone different denounced.

Yet, at the same time, the message is that these ones ostracized and shunned due to their divergent experiences and feelings are actually just like everyone else, and merely hold mistaken and hurtful opinions.

I've known all my life how being an outsider feels. I don't like it. But I'll no longer discard, dismiss and deny my own thoughts and feelings. I am what I was born as, and don't wish to lie, pretend and make compromises in order to be welcomed and accepted by those who can't accept the way I feel. Or what I am.

It is the girl group I've always needed to belong to.
I am a girl—a woman with a physical deformity that needs to and can be fixed.
I need surgery in order to become and live as a normal woman.
Not a third sex.

And since I would now appear to have become the only one left on this forum who feels the way I do, I confess that I feel very alone.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 05:34:37 AM by zirconia »

Offline Kiera

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 06:19:02 AM »
Z, I find your "saved quotes" too funny and rather ironic. So sorry you wasted, potentially at least, all your hard-won efforts and breath!

      To my mind you've got "girl", "a woman", and then "old lady" and, in this particular instance, the three never did, or will, ever "meet" in the first place! I, admittedly due to non-social transition, am probably a classic case of "arrested emotional development" but jumping directly to "old lady" would never have been an option . .

And, to my dying day, may still never be!

     
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 06:01:02 AM by Kiera »

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2020, 06:31:45 PM »
So, I'm not sure how relevant my comments are to this discussion as my trial by fire took place prior to the invention of WPATH, (lucky me!)
As best as l can recall Harry Benjamin was the guy that first came up with the idea that RLT was a good one. I vaguely remember some mention of "standards" being formulated and if my recollection serves me, this resulted in HBIGDA which quickly morphed into WPATH.
It is my understanding that these efforts were made to codify what Benjamin originally came up with. Unfortunately when committees get involved things become political and the "conventional wisdom" became political expediency. I'm hoping Elisabeth will chime in because she most definitely knows her stuff even though I believe she managed to avoid the worst of what l think of as the "know nothing" regurgitators off "he said/she said".
Bottom line: Do l think RLT is a good idea? Absolutely!
If done properly, it allows the patient/candidate to really and truly understand what life "in their chosen gender" is really all about.

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2020, 03:12:14 AM »
Not really sure my comments are relevant or helpful when it comes to discussing “real life” experience? Things were so different for me, they likely don’t apply?

To me the concept of a real life test is a little hard to wrap my head around as it seems intended to prove to yourself and to the doctors deciding on your care that you are sure about your new gender and can navigate it successfully. That’s a good thing but in my case, the distinction between new gender and old gender is an indefinable fuzzy line because I’ve only ever had one gender even though I’ve been known as two different sexes.

Now I know this sounds like the bullshIt part of the trans narrative when 50 year old John with a wife and four kids says he’s only ever had one gender and always been a “woman” but my particular reality is that even though we have to go back forty-five or fifty years since I’ve was known by two different names, my gender, nature, manner, interests and personality was always perceived as female. Even most strangers thought I was a little girl. I’ve never been accepted into or wanted to fit in and be accepted into “the boy’s club” which is why I has so many difficulties as a child. I didn’t know how to boy and didn’t have a “boy mode” to use a concept understood within the trans narrative. Even if a person didn’t know or talk to me, by the time I was eight or nine even my appearance alone revealed that I was different and by age twelve most strangers, shopkeepers and waiters and stuff just assumed I was a girl without struggling to figure it out.

There was a tricky period in there when my parents seemed to get off in correcting people when someone called me miss or young lady and my folks would say things like “that’s a boy, can you believe it?” I think they were proud of or liked the attention and novelty of having a weird kid and they did it too as a way of embarrassing me without really being malicious or mean about it. Humor, teasing and causing embarrassment were one of the ways they approached things and just their style. Futile as it was, not being like a boy was sometimes a thing I was playfully teased about but it was never forced or I was never put down because of it. It was kind of funny to them their son looked and acted like a girl and maybe joking about it with strangers was their way of coping and normalizing it somewhat?

 By the time I was 13/14, their little game had run its course and lost its zing or they just got bored or tired of explaining things to people so in public situations they just started going with the flow and using she/her pronouns for me simply because it was easier and I think maybe they’d gotten a little wiser about me not liking hating it when they did out me as a boy. Still at this point, not much was really spoken about this.

After I was 15 and made it clear there wasn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that I was ever going to grow up and be a man and we did speak about it, it had become pretty obvious to my folks this was true and they got with the program. For years, all my clothes had come from the girl’s side of the store anyway as long as they weren’t too feminine and could also pass as boy’s clothes but I began to get things that were over that line for everywhere except for going to school. I got makeup and jewelry and things that smelled good and they started using my girl name. I had always been treated and raised in alignment with my nature so when I say I started “living as a girl”, there wasn’t any real difference from when I was known as a boy. I can’t think of any except maybe a few stereotypical trappings of what’s considered feminine. There was no before and after with the exception of after might have been a tiny bit more sparkly?

When I went to high school as a “boy”, all this meant I couldn’t wear makeup or overtly girl’s clothing and was called he/him and by a boy’s name but it doesn’t mean anything else was different about me or that I rushed home and put on frilly knickers, a dress and lipstick magically transforming me into a girl or that I had a different personality.

I just was a girl and even physically, with long pretty blonde hair halfway down my back, pierced ears, shaped brows, manicured nails and shaved legs plus being small and kind of shaped like a girl anyway, I couldn’t have and didn’t pass as a boy even if I had wanted to but that’s what I was known as when I went to school: a fvcking queer girlish mentally ill freakish pervert oddball faggot. What I was, was very confusing to people that knew I was male.

Needless to say, I didn’t want to pass for a boy and I pretty much hated school for the way people treated me and for what I was known to be. In some respects, it was living sort of a dual life because at school I was abused, mocked, beaten up and hated but the rest of the time and in the rest of my life, everything was just normal and I didn’t have to put up with any of this crap.

I was pretty limited socially and “grounded for life” after I was assaulted but my folks did what they could in making everything normal for me. The three of us were a regular family and I was included as part of their social life as their daughter and it all just seemed average and normal. My extended family of cousins and their parents had always just thought of me as one of the girls anyway and nothing changed about me in any way except my name and pronouns that just seemed to make more sense to everyone. Nobody treated me any differently because I wasn't different than I'd ever been.

By the time I was 17 and crashing with the paradox of having to be known as a boy to stay in school and my folks had finally found a doctor they thought might really be able to do something to help me, I had already been presenting as and fully accepted as a girl for nearly two years everywhere except for the school thing. I hardly needed to go through some real life test because being a girl already was my real life.

After graduating I continued living my real life with the added benefit of never having to be known as a boy ever again. I did normal real life stuff… got a job, made friends and had a life like anybody else’s. Several years later when I needed to get letters for surgery, doctors looked at me and listened to me for five minutes and got out their pens and started writing. Of course I needed this surgery. I was a young woman in every respect and women didn’t have penises.

I’ve never lived as or been a man to need some real life test to prove I could live as a woman as for decades it had been proven I couldn’t live as or be anything else. If I were to “de-transition” as it were, I’d still be a girl because that’s all I’ve never known how to be.

So, I can’t comment from experience much about going through a transition or going through a test to prove I can be what I am and have always been but I can add a few words about my opinion on this subject.

If you’re going through the MTF transition process from one thing to another, I think it is crucial to have some genuine in-depth experience of what this “other” life is really going to be like. Personally, I think for most, this full-time real life test should be two years rather than one before you start chopping off bits but understand that when an older transitioner’s bell goes off, it’s like the Indy 500 to get to the finish line, hell or high water be damned. Do I think doctors or surgeons have the right to demand a person go through a RLT? Absolutely 100%.

Just remember, If you don’t “pass” or can’t successfully blend in or are having other difficulties, having SRS is not going to change that one bit. They used to refer to surgery as “the icing on the cake” and like most cakes, they should be well baked and cooled off before they are iced. In my case, I was always was a cake, had long since cooled off and was getting dried out and moldy before I was iced. If I did have a RLT before surgery, it had lasted a lifetime.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 01:30:04 PM by Elisabeth »

Offline zirconia

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2020, 02:43:12 PM »
My thanks to everyone who has read and commented... It's interesting to see your thoughts and read your stories.

In a sense I think Elisabeth and Complete have said all that needs to be said about the subject. I'm adding this third post since it is a continuation of my own thoughts that might otherwise get lost... and... well, I didn't want to leave it behind.


Once again, this topic was a response to another one. The fruit of irritation. But at the same time sorrow, I guess. And frustration.

The irritation part I commented on earlier. The sorrow was about once again feeling alone in a strange place. And the frustration a result of feeling my feelings and words seem to meet pretty instant repudiation or reinterpretation.

At the same time I felt amused... because many of the responses were predictable or... well, amusing.

I should have guessed that my comment about feeling lonely would be interpreted as a whole, literally. Kiera understood what I meant and I guess for whom my words were intended... and I suspect also wanted me to expand on my reasons for needing SRS for others' benefit, despite already knowing it... (am I right, Kiera?)  but I got the feeling the main part of what I said was lost in a void.

Quote
Am curious why SRS is so important to you? Is it because you crave, miss the attentions of men OR or is it simply a locker room thing, feel it would be better to help you more properly "belong"? And as far as us "older folks" is concerned surely doctors/therapists couldn't give a hoot what we choose I mean "what changes of life" can such old dogs expect and, best case, we ain't gonna live long enough to experience any new "regrets" anyway?

Kiera, I didn't comment on the second part of your response then partly because I felt my words would cause "consternation and distress" and partly because I didn't want to fan the topic out too much. I'm a pretty slow writer, and had no spare time to discuss (or debate) a lot of things at the same time. Besides which, finding words unlikely to be misunderstood takes energy.


I've done some thinking about the subject since, however... and I guess many of the people who object to RLT/RLE may in a sense be at cross purposes with the doctors who require it. The doctors assume that transitioners' goal is to undergo a sex change. That they need to be women. However, from what I've seen on the boards, many people actually wish to be "transgender." I was surprised when one even wanted a tattoo that proclaimed the fact.

In fact the therapist who was assigned to me by the doctors also told me at our final session that the majority of her clients identify as transgender. To them it's important. It's what they feel they are. For someone like that I do see that having to live as a woman would feel both unnecessary and irksome.


But if one really is transitioning because one already is a woman, then RLT/RLE is a non-event. And... if one finds living as a woman for that one year in some way difficult... then how can one handle a whole life as a woman?


LOL... I guess I did also end up talking about the subject myself after all...


Without the rest of the original thread my words to Linde seem cryptic. To clarify, she replied to the closing comment in my previous post that I'm not the only one who is "different." And that there might be others there with feelings similar to mine who just didn't want to talk about their feelings...

So... finally, without further ado...



---
Mar 23, 2020

Actually the sentence quoted by Linde and Kiera was just an afterthought. A side remark.  LOL

But... since that's what seemed to catch people's eye rather than the main body of text, let me clarify.

I don't at all mean I feel forlorn. My life is growing ever more distant from the transosphere, and here in the real word I don't feel at all alone. Once I dared see transition as a door instead of a destination the switch was natural and easy. I can be a woman because my body can and  will be fixed. And I am happy to pay any price to leave the pain behind.

It's in the transosphere—on the forums and at the support groups I've visited—that I feel... isolated, I guess. I seem to live in a completely different universe. Take e.g. the evaluation and treatment process. (Because it's less likely to provoke censure and ire than some other things that I've found hard to understand.)

For me it was like a coming home. A safe haven. A beacon of hope. The doctors were unbelievably caring and understanding. And very much wanted to help me.

But... in general it appears to be seen as a negative thing. A barrier. An unnecessary and antiquated relic.

The questions I found to sharpen my focus are seen as probing and intrusive. The opportunities to think as a chore. Where I saw and felt a sharp and friendly scalpel that helped me cut through scarred tangles of thought  others saw hostile aggression. Where I cried with the relief of finally being allowed to expose the depths of my pain, others speak of the anger they feel at rude and ruthless demands to divulge things they feel to be private.

When at a support group I timidly tried to say I liked the doctors, one of the organizers dismissed my words in a softly spiteful tone with "Some have no problems."

I find it very improbable that a special, kind and gentle team was established just for me. So whence the difference?
All I can say is that I went to seek help, and got it. In abundance... Not one word of the horror stories I'd heard was true. For me.

But... anyway.


Linde... "may be" is not the same as "is." Neither is "different" the same as "alike."

If there is someone like me here then what do you suppose makes her hesitate? Or prevents her from speaking up? I certainly would welcome her. Warmly. And would love to discuss the simplicity of what we need to do. Despite the incredible pain that it entails. And the need—the drive—to reach the goal regardless the price or extent of the agony. Which did make me cry once again today. And the peace of knowing one needs to live so much that nothing can stand in one's way.

If there is someone who feels the same and is not yet complete, I'm sure she'll also want help. Need it like I did. The help I finally found in someone whom others here don't find welcome. And while I also am not yet complete I'd be more than willing to offer what I'm able to.

But I doubt there is. Because the moment I saw what I needed I called out. And found a safe, slender, firm and warm hand that pulled me out of the quicksand. I believe anyone who feels like I do would want the same.


Kiera...

Thank you... yes. It's funny, but I do think that it actually may be some random guest who may eventually find some solace in something I've written. I only joined the other forum because someone urgently needed some information I had, and the only way I could offer it was by becoming a member. I'm sure there must be other similar seekers somewhere out there.

As for SRS... LOL ❤️

I doubt you seriously won't have guessed—especially since I've said it explicitly before—but I'll reply anyway. My body is not a trinket or an ornament. My need to be whole is no mere "locker room thing." I want and need what nature intended the female body to be capable of. Just the memory of the faint foretaste I've had to date is enough to make my body smolder with ecstasy. Even now. When I described it to my New Elder Sister™️ over tea at her house she smiled and told me I was still just a blossom—but in time would know what it is to truly bloom.

So. For anyone who maybe didn't get that... I want Sex Reassignment Surgery to have sex. With men. It is a need. An urgent, instinctual desire.


There. I hope that clarifies that issue... LOL ٩( ᐛ )و

Now... please ignore the last sentence of my previous post, and reread the body. It's there that I said what I really wanted to convey.

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2020, 08:01:52 PM »
My thanks to everyone who has read and commented... It's interesting to see your thoughts and read your stories.

In a sense I think Elisabeth and Complete have said all that needs to be said about the subject. I'm adding this third post since it is a continuation of my own thoughts that might otherwise get lost... and... well, I didn't want to leave it behind.


Once again, this topic was a response to another one. The fruit of irritation. But at the same time sorrow, I guess. And frustration.

The irritation part I commented on earlier. The sorrow was about once again feeling alone in a strange place. And the frustration a result of feeling my feelings and words seem to meet pretty instant repudiation or reinterpretation.

At the same time I felt amused... because many of the responses were predictable or... well, amusing.

I should have guessed that my comment about feeling lonely would be interpreted as a whole, literally. Kiera understood what I meant and I guess for whom my words were intended... and I suspect also wanted me to expand on my reasons for needing SRS for others' benefit, despite already knowing it... (am I right, Kiera?)  but I got the feeling the main part of what I said was lost in a void.

Kiera, I didn't comment on the second part of your response then partly because I felt my words would cause "consternation and distress" and partly because I didn't want to fan the topic out too much. I'm a pretty slow writer, and had no spare time to discuss (or debate) a lot of things at the same time. Besides which, finding words unlikely to be misunderstood takes energy.


I've done some thinking about the subject since, however... and I guess many of the people who object to RLT/RLE may in a sense be at cross purposes with the doctors who require it. The doctors assume that transitioners' goal is to undergo a sex change. That they need to be women. However, from what I've seen on the boards, many people actually wish to be "transgender." I was surprised when one even wanted a tattoo that proclaimed the fact.

In fact the therapist who was assigned to me by the doctors also told me at our final session that the majority of her clients identify as transgender. To them it's important. It's what they feel they are. For someone like that I do see that having to live as a woman would feel both unnecessary and irksome.


But if one really is transitioning because one already is a woman, then RLT/RLE is a non-event. And... if one finds living as a woman for that one year in some way difficult... then how can one handle a whole life as a woman?


LOL... I guess I did also end up talking about the subject myself after all...


Without the rest of the original thread my words to Linde seem cryptic. To clarify, she replied to the closing comment in my previous post that I'm not the only one who is "different." And that there might be others there with feelings similar to mine who just didn't want to talk about their feelings...

So... finally, without further ado...



---
Mar 23, 2020

Actually the sentence quoted by Linde and Kiera was just an afterthought. A side remark.  LOL

But... since that's what seemed to catch people's eye rather than the main body of text, let me clarify.

I don't at all mean I feel forlorn. My life is growing ever more distant from the transosphere, and here in the real word I don't feel at all alone. Once I dared see transition as a door instead of a destination the switch was natural and easy. I can be a woman because my body can and  will be fixed. And I am happy to pay any price to leave the pain behind.

It's in the transosphere—on the forums and at the support groups I've visited—that I feel... isolated, I guess. I seem to live in a completely different universe. Take e.g. the evaluation and treatment process. (Because it's less likely to provoke censure and ire than some other things that I've found hard to understand.)

For me it was like a coming home. A safe haven. A beacon of hope. The doctors were unbelievably caring and understanding. And very much wanted to help me.

But... in general it appears to be seen as a negative thing. A barrier. An unnecessary and antiquated relic.

The questions I found to sharpen my focus are seen as probing and intrusive. The opportunities to think as a chore. Where I saw and felt a sharp and friendly scalpel that helped me cut through scarred tangles of thought  others saw hostile aggression. Where I cried with the relief of finally being allowed to expose the depths of my pain, others speak of the anger they feel at rude and ruthless demands to divulge things they feel to be private.

When at a support group I timidly tried to say I liked the doctors, one of the organizers dismissed my words in a softly spiteful tone with "Some have no problems."

I find it very improbable that a special, kind and gentle team was established just for me. So whence the difference?
All I can say is that I went to seek help, and got it. In abundance... Not one word of the horror stories I'd heard was true. For me.

But... anyway.


Linde... "may be" is not the same as "is." Neither is "different" the same as "alike."

If there is someone like me here then what do you suppose makes her hesitate? Or prevents her from speaking up? I certainly would welcome her. Warmly. And would love to discuss the simplicity of what we need to do. Despite the incredible pain that it entails. And the need—the drive—to reach the goal regardless the price or extent of the agony. Which did make me cry once again today. And the peace of knowing one needs to live so much that nothing can stand in one's way.

If there is someone who feels the same and is not yet complete, I'm sure she'll also want help. Need it like I did. The help I finally found in someone whom others here don't find welcome. And while I also am not yet complete I'd be more than willing to offer what I'm able to.

But I doubt there is. Because the moment I saw what I needed I called out. And found a safe, slender, firm and warm hand that pulled me out of the quicksand. I believe anyone who feels like I do would want the same.


Kiera...

Thank you... yes. It's funny, but I do think that it actually may be some random guest who may eventually find some solace in something I've written. I only joined the other forum because someone urgently needed some information I had, and the only way I could offer it was by becoming a member. I'm sure there must be other similar seekers somewhere out there.

As for SRS... LOL ❤️

I doubt you seriously won't have guessed—especially since I've said it explicitly before—but I'll reply anyway. My body is not a trinket or an ornament. My need to be whole is no mere "locker room thing." I want and need what nature intended the female body to be capable of. Just the memory of the faint foretaste I've had to date is enough to make my body smolder with ecstasy. Even now. When I described it to my New Elder Sister™️ over tea at her house she smiled and told me I was still just a blossom—but in time would know what it is to truly bloom.

So. For anyone who maybe didn't get that... I want Sex Reassignment Surgery to have sex. With men. It is a need. An urgent, instinctual desire.


There. I hope that clarifies that issue... LOL ٩( ᐛ )و

Now... please ignore the last sentence of my previous post, and reread the body. It's there that I said what I really wanted to convey.

So....above, there is a really clear and really well articulated expression of why certain people must have a "sex change"; ie, undergo SRS. Nothing else matters. Nothing.
In fact there is so much there l will have to respond to it piecemeal.
To begin:
Quote
"The doctors assume that transitioners' goal is to undergo a sex change. That they need to be women. However, from what I've seen on the boards, many people actually wish to be "transgender." I was surprised when one even wanted a tattoo that proclaimed the fact.
So my reaction to this obvious distinction between someone who absolutely must have SRS in order to not just "feel" complete, not just to survive, but to actually live as a happy fulfilled, unqualified woman.......and those who are not so "motivated"(?)
Is......well.....pretty simple.
 Duhh...
Yes! That is definitely a pretty big difference. If this is so, can we not agree that maybe, just maybe, one size does not fit all?
In other words would it not also. follow that the treatment protocols might also differ.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2020, 08:49:41 PM »
It would be so  nice if the word transsexual hadn't been shelved and dumped as "boomerspeak" in favor of the term "transgender". Because transsexual women do exist.  Unfortunately, it has garnered the definition of everything from antiquated to toxic. IMHO, it's still the most appropriate terminology to be attributed to many of us and a descriptor that demands no additional explanation.😊

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2020, 09:30:01 PM »
It would be so  nice if the word transsexual hadn't been shelved and dumped as "boomerspeak" in favor of the term "transgender". Because transsexual women do exist.  Unfortunately, it has garnered the definition of everything from antiquated to toxic. IMHO, it's still the most appropriate terminology to be attributed to many of us and a descriptor that demands no additional explanation.😊

Agreed

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2020, 10:53:01 PM »
A continuar:
Quote
....(l) would love to discuss the simplicity of what we need to do. Despite the incredible pain that it entails. And the need—the drive—to reach the goal regardless the price or extent of the agony. Which did make me cry once again today. And the peace of knowing one needs to live so much that nothing can stand in one's way

So this is the feeling, the need, that l too once had, decades ago. It is that feeling that drove me, despite the terrible costs, to make those drastic changes to my body. But first, l had to be shown a way beyond the despair....l had to be shown a way...an exit...something other than the notoriety of being something "special/different/exotic/strange".
When l was growing up, when l was trying to cope with that unfathomable incongruity of being a little girl with a little boy's body, all l could see was the fanfare and the fame of Christine Jorgensen. His/her "sex change" was on the front page of the New York Times. The sensational news was all over television. Christine Jorgensen was a celebrity. I knew then, l thought, l was surely lost.
Like Zirconia, being something like that, something l was not...was something l could not live with. Again a definite difference in basic needs.
What this means is something l think, that merits further exploration.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2020, 11:16:19 PM »
All our journey's are so divergent. I waited so long that at this point in my existence, I just want to be. To revel in my raison de' etre. I spent a lifetime examining why I might be the way I was. After a lifetime of living through furtiveness, addiction and regret.... to finally find myself here, I actually have been basking in the rest. My mind is finally at rest.  After all this time, I am taking great solace in the peace and the calm. I know it's selfish to not want to help others, but I now enjoy mental and physical health. For the first time in my existence I no longer depend on Alcohol or big pharma to make it through my days. That's so priceless.


Offline Kiera

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2020, 04:21:08 AM »
But if one really is transitioning because one already is a woman, then RLT/RLE is a non-event. And... if one finds living as a woman for that one year in some way difficult...

        Nice closure z to a thread I found rather difficult to participate in. lol I have a lot of "deleting of copies" to do lest this one had also suddenly disappeared like so many others had a tendency to do! Really do feel you, I and possibly Maddie are at that same spot in so many ways even if we might disagree on what exactly "being a woman" entails. That part is only natural, is what makes you 'you' and I, to quote 'Keri's fav cis spouse,
WHATEVER!
 
        I too would certainly consider SRS if offered, thought somebody else was PAYING otherwise highly unlikely . . I willingly gave up THAT option when I chose to retire from an airline that is "self-insured/funded" and a very "EO, LGB affirming" company.

       I think you've previously hinted at "private" and what type of SRS if not "who", "when" or "where" there's a short thread "over there" that talks 'bout some of the newer "options" and, more importantly, an "outcome".
Quote
"Indeed, I had my GCS a little more than a year ago and I'm globally very pleased."


( lol and see both "Maddie" and that "black umbrella girl" posted there previously! )

Quote from: ps:
<link removed>
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 02:37:52 am by Ellie_Arroway »
Friggin Ahabs! I see Gallagher's new Miami site is online but no mention of laparoscopic procedure(s)

Cheers
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 01:54:47 PM by Kiera »

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2020, 12:28:42 PM »
From Kiera
Quote
  I too would certainly consider SRS if offered...
Followed by:
Quote
"Indeed, I had my GCS a little more than a year ago and I'm globally very pleased."

Again, l am having trouble following your line of thought(?)
Is it just me suffering from reading "mis-comprehension"?

Offline Complete

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2020, 04:37:21 PM »
From Antisthenes:

Quote
To revel in my raison de' etre.

Yes !!! That is the key !

Offline zirconia

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Re: Day to day life of someone not yet complete...
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 12:45:08 AM »
Complete... Thank you for understanding.

It's hard to express how it felt to see there is an exit. Perhaps as if a steel spike had been pulled from my heart.
Your words brought back the pain, the immense relief, and the first true hope, joy and gratitude... and made my tears flow once again at the memory.


Antisthenes,

The word/concept gender doesn't exist in all languages. E.g. in my first language the analogues to "transgender" I've heard used include e.g. rainbow people, trans people, trans identifiers and people of the spectrum... And the analogue for "gender identity" is "sex identity."


Kiera,
I think you brought up an important point. So many things do depend on what we consider being a woman to entail. To me it's to simply be like my sisters. Regardless of the situation. Capable of love as they are.

I'm curious... How about you?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 07:39:30 AM by zirconia »