‘Girl’ – Movie review & comments [spoilers]

[Elisabeth]

Roger Ebert gave this movie 2.5 stars and did not like it.  https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/girl-2019

Vanity Fair panned and criticized the film in their review: There’s No Good Reason to Watch Belgium’s Controversial Girl

There’s discussion of the film on NPR: 'Girl' Talk: 2 Critics Break Down The Polarizing New Netflix Movie

Wikipedia has a synopsis of the film as well as comments on the negative and positive reviews and remarks from the trans girl that inspired the story that I think are worth reading. The film is available on Netflix with subtitles.

As expected, the panties-in-a-twist LGB and trans community panned it because it did not have a trans director, writer or actor playing the main role, said it was from a cis point of view and focused more on Lara’s body dysphoria than story and lacked depth. Rather universally, the ending scenes of self-harm were criticized sharply. Many writers and advocates called the film traumatizing and a danger to the transgender community. Sheesh!

I, on the other hand, thought for the most part it was well done and relatable and that actor playing Lara was terrific.  The parts that weren’t brought stark contrast to the way I was treated accepted and socialized during high school. There were cringy moments like when getting introduced to the new class she was completely outed and asked to close her eyes while the teacher asked other girls to raise their hand if they had a problem with Lara in their changing room and when at a party of her peers she was goaded into showing them her penis but I think other parts of the film made up for it.

The representation of the medical aspects of transitioning I thought were accurate and informative and I thought the accepting and supportive relationship with her loving father was touching even if she was a moody, non-communicative teenager that was unwilling to talk about her feelings. I thought the determination and perseverance shown by the main character as well as her shame, disgust and obsession about her body was fairly well portrayed. Having been on the brink of similar self-harm and suicide myself as a teenager and while I think it was kind of thrown in at the end and the final scene didn’t explain much, it touched a familiar nerve.

There’s a lot about this film I think for non-trans viewers probably went right over their heads and many trans viewers were probably prejudiced against it in the first place? I really liked it and gave it a thumbs-up review.

I also intend to watch it again with my non-trans best woman friend that knows I am trans with pauses to comment because I know there’s certain things she won’t see and miss completely. There’s a lot of non-verbal stuff and body language I’m not even sure someone not trans can interpret?

So if you haven’t seen this movie, I would recommend it. If you have seen it, what did you think about it?

[Antisthenes]

It looks really interesting. I'll watch it. Thanks for the heads up

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See. This post is the reason that l really like having Elisabeth around, (even though we fight like cats and dogs behind the scenes). Good, tasty, thought provoking food for thought.
This film, The Girl, sounds like a great film, but not one l'd want to go see. Firstly, because l am not a masochist, and secondly, because there is so little there that l can relate too.
It represents an experience and a POV, (trans/queer/cis), that I'm just not familiar with.

[Antisthenes]

I'm prolly a masochist. 😏 So I'll watch it.

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Great! Then you can share with us what you think. Elisabeth too.

[Elisabeth]

With a few minutes left before heading out to the bar for the evening, after three friggin' hours of getting ready, maybe I should say things about what the movie is about?

It is the story of a 15 to 17 year old trans girl whose family has just moved either to or from Antwerp in order for Lara, the main character, to attend a prestigious ballerina school. There is no backstory how they came to this point. Lara has been on puberty blockers and within the course of the film, begins taking estrogen but is unhappy with her rate of development. There is a lot of ballerina school in the movie which she struggles to succeed in at the expense of her health.

Yes, maybe if you weren't a 15 year old trans girl it doesn't strike quite as close to home as it did for me but if anyone can watch this and not see a little bit of themselves in it somewhere regardless of your age, then you're just out of touch. I really enjoyed it.

It represents an experience and a POV, (trans/queer/cis), that I'm just not familiar with.

Trans/queer/cis pretty much covers the entire spectrum. Come on, are you an alien or something? It isn't also a movie you "have to go see" or heaven forbid, gay. It's streaming on Netflix. You can sign up for free and watch for a month with no obligation.

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Trans/queer/cis pretty much covers the entire spectrum. Come on, are you an alien or something? It isn't also a movie you "have to go see" or heaven forbid, gay. It's streaming on Netflix. You can sign up for free and watch for a month with no obligation.

We already have Netflix. If l get a chance....just for you....maybe....
But only, if you think about this. This movie speaks to you perhaps because you were that 15y/o girl with a penis. Awkward, no doubt.
Believe me, l gave that "problema" a great deal of thought when l was that age and dealt with it differently. Happily those days, and that particular problema is long forgotten to the point l honestly have so little memory of that time, that like l said, l just have no point of reference.
You'll noticed that most of the "controversy" came from the LGBT types as well as the professional pundits. It's what these guys get paid to do. But do they really understand?
I think that much like that WPATH approved doctor you mentioned in another thread, they really "don't know nuthin' about nuthin'".

[Antisthenes]

I don't have Netflix and don't think I'll sign up but it seems the movie was panned because the cis saviors didn't want it to be about gender dysphoria and it was portrayed by a male lead. Ironic that cis reviewers are deciding what it is that she should be concerning herself about? Rotten tomato's on the other hand gave it 83%? Unheard of rating for them..

[Kiera]

        Find it hard to believe what's posted online sometimes, indeed, what's true true and what's pure BS. This movie's ending left a bad taste for me but not in the way you'd think. I've watched it many times since and thought it a GREAT movie, one of the best I've seen, but then again don't usually pursue LGB genre movies as a rule so have little to compare it to as well.

       

I went to an all-girls sleepover on Friday night, presenting female. I was so excited and two of the girls there were really good friends of mine, but three of them were girls I didn't know. Halfway through the night after a movie, one of the girls (let's call her Maggie) turns to me and asks, "So, how do you hide it?"

I try to play dumb and ask, "Hide what"? and then I turn to my other friend and ask a question trying to change the subject. I can feel my face getting hot. I know Maggie didn't ask the question of out malice, but out of curiosity. Still, I try and start a conversation with my close friend, Regan, but she stops me.

"Yeah, Chantal, how do you hide it? I've never asked. Can we see it? I mean, you've seen mine before."

"It's not the same," I said, faking a laugh.

"Why not?"

"Because I don't have a--"

"A p*ssy?" Maggie asks, "So, you're a girl, right? If you're a girl you wouldn't care if other girls saw what you had down there. It's not like we're going to care or anything. Show us!"

I shuddered, "I just don't want to. I wouldn't be comfortable. Not until I've changed it or had a surgery or whatever. I don't even like looking at it myself."

At this point, another girl (Eva) sighs, "Come on, Chantal. It's not a big deal. Show us."

My second close friend, Harlie, doesn't say anything. She can see my discomfort, how I feel like jumping out the window. She gives me a kinda sympathetic look, but doesn't come to my defense or try and change the subject. Maggie ended up reaching for my pajama pants and laughing as she tried pulling them down. I kicked her off of me and she goes, "What the <not allowed> was that for?"

Finally, Harlie said something: "Maggie stop."

The conversation/argument went on for a bit between these girls and I'm sitting there, feeling like a spectacle. I thought I'd be treated like a girl at this sleepover. For the most part, I was. But here we were, these girls trying to see it as if it's just there for their entertainment. Like I'm a freak in a freak show. A half woman. A half girl.

I pretended to go to sleep shortly after, but my throat was so tight. I felt like an idiot. My self-worth plummeted, momentarily, but it still plummeted. I felt anger, towards Harlie and Regan--especially Regan. I can't expect them to understand the severity of it. What they wanted to see. Yeah, I'v'e seen Regan naked, but it's not like I asked. She was getting dressed. I didn't ask to see her genitalia, so why did she want to see mine? I'm sure she's seen a d*ck before.

I just want it gone.

      ok, to keep a simple story short: after reading the preceding , which I have obviously since copied,  I PM her and asked if she had watched "Girl" and after complaining "no", her home life was difficult (in Florida) and mother was equivocal at best, I sent fluergirl my Netflix access info so could watch it herself.

       Later she PM'd me back with a "thanks, enjoyed/liked it too" (saved these PMs should still be there when my BAN is lifted) but then very last post on her account was actually from her mother implying daughter had committed suicide, "was no longer with us" in a very matter of fact sort of way . .

       What AMAZED me most was this LAST POST seemed to have escaped everyone's notice, as if nobody else really cared! Always professing to care but in reality DON'T was I indeed complicit in fluersgirl's death? Would it NOT have occurred had she not seen her experience portrayed in such a way? Did this really happen at all in the way events panned-out or just another cruel joke, the laugh is on me?

. .the accepting and supportive relationship with her loving father was touching even if she was a moody, non-communicative teenager . .

     Yes! Especially the early scene in the car, just after a therapy appointment, when the father just assumed she'd "like guys?" and she indicated doesn't know, not necessarily case at all.
     My father and I had a similar conversation and, in a way, I think he was relieved I wasn't "just gay", like evil #2 step-mother had otherwise led him to believe all along?

[Elisabeth]

Thank you Kiera for your post and comments and mostly English!    I'm glad you liked the movie as did I.

I knew Chantal and you had nothing to do with it. Her mom and boyfriend also wondered if they were complicit and it took them by surprise because some things for her had started looking up or at least no recent triggering major events had happened anyone knew about for her to take such drastic and unfortunate measures. She may have recently broken up or gotten back together with her boyfriend, I don't remember exactly but nobody saw this coming from what I understand.

Tragic for sure but you would have thought the film might have shown her she wasn't the only one to go through such an experience and its sometimes comforting to know you're not alone or the only person in the world to go through something like that.

Thanks again for sharing.

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Tragic for sure but you would have thought the film might have shown her she wasn't the only one to go through such an experience and its sometimes comforting to know you're not alone or the only person in the world to go through something like that.
Thanks again for sharing.

Kiera's rather lucid comment points out the obvious point that "transition", however it may be seen, done, or interpreted, is no easy undertaking and most certainly comes with no guarantees of success. In fact l would venture to guess that the vast majority end in some form of "failure", or at the very least, fall short of the intended, wished for, or hoped for outcome.
That said, (and of course my point is open to debate), could ther be an argument made that the current protocols for transition might be in need of some possible review and/or re-evaluation by someone other than the current crew of "politically astute exspurts"?
Just askin'. Would not that tiny minority of souls that somehow made it across that "gender divide" in more or less one piece, have something to offer that maybe just might be worth at least thinking about?

[Elisabeth]

That said, (and of course my point is open to debate), could ther be an argument made that the current protocols for transition might be in need of some possible review and/or re-evaluation by someone other than the current crew of "politically astute exspurts"?

Just askin'. Would not that tiny minority of souls that somehow made it across that "gender divide" in more or less one piece, have something to offer that maybe just might be worth at least thinking about?

I agree the current protocols might be in need of some review and that maybe someone outside the cult of WPATH could provide worthy input.

Would you please start a thread outlining what you don't like about "the system" and specify your recommendations on what you would like to see changed or done differently.

[Kiera]

Would you please start a thread outlining what you don't like  . .

     Well I'd bite too! Never have used "the system" would be curious about what I might face one day. I used "The Dr. Powers method", long before he ever became fashionable.

     Elisabeth, Thank You for filling in some blanks with Chantel. She was a very sweet girl I only knew for a very short time but she will be in my thoughts and prayers forever!

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From Elisabeth:

Would you please start a thread outlining what you don't like about "the system" and specify your recommendations on what you would like to see changed or done differently.

You really don't ask for much, do you. I'll put my thinking cap on and see what pops out.
I think the most difficult problem is when and what to do and HOW, once a very clear understanding has been reached as to the extent and the nature of the problem.
In order to address this problem, all political correction must go out the window.

All co-morbidities must be taken into account and dealt with before any consideration of any potential psycho-sexual disconnect.
What this means is that the vast majority of what's been installed into the WPATH bible of cliches and personal projections by the gay and lesbians authors must accompany the PC rhetoric OUT THE WINDOW.
How's that for starters?

BTW: What is the Dr. Powers method"?

[Antisthenes]

BTW: What is the Dr. Powers method"?

Lots and lots and lots and lots of injectable estrogen and even more micronized progesterone up the bum. No Anti-Androgens required.

He is the latest darling amongst the transitioning set and has his own agenda and marches to the beat of his own drummer. He is uninterested in psychological profiles and sticks to physiological results. Stays in his lane, I will give him that.

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Different strokes for different folks. Anything on how's that working out for his clientele?

So l had a few minutes and googled the guy.  l stand by my initial assessment. I also think that he is capitalizing on a need pervasive within the trans community. I can't say that what he is doing is wrong, that is way outside my wheelhouse but personally, l find what he is doing offensive.
Nevertheless, this begs the question, What are his patients trying to achieve? What is their end goal? What is Powers facilitating?

[zirconia]

In order to address this problem, all political correction must go out the window.
All co-morbidities must be taken into account and dealt with before any consideration of any potential psycho-sexual disconnect.

The unit that evaluated me does screen for comorbidities. And is under rabid attack for sending a lot of people to get other treatment first... so I hear they're in the process of also introducing an informed consent path. Due to political pressure.

I myself am very glad I got the full screening... or almost. The psychologist decided to skip some tests as unnecessary after she sat in on my final psychiatric appointment. While it was brutal to go through and relive some parts of the pain, it's better to fracture and straighten a bone that's healed wrong than live with a limp. Or have a good one set at a wrong angle.

They fell quiet for a long moment when I thanked them at the final diagnostic meeting and described how safe I'd felt in their hands. I guess they don't get very much praise.

Edit: Accuracy

[Antisthenes]

Nevertheless, this begs the question, What are his patients trying to achieve? What is their end goal? What is Powers facilitating?

For all intents and purposes his goal seems to be helping patients with a more feminized form at the end of their transitions.  Although he doesn't vilify wpath, he has differences of opinions with their course of pharmaceutical intervention. His main intent seems to be on helping his patients achieve a tanner stage 5 breast result. As to his results, I have no clue. His patients sing his praises but peoples perceptions are just that and their apocryphal observations could be anything from actual to delusional. But that appears to be his deal.  To his credit he seems very kind, open minded and always respectful to everyone.

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To his credit he seems very kind, open minded and always respectful to everyone.

So this is the good news. Thank you for exposing me to yet more unknowns.

[Kiera]

. . lots and lots of injectable estrogen and even more micronized progesterone up the bum. No Anti-Androgens required.
He is the latest darling amongst the transitioning set . .

        lol Well put! He's also a cat lover who doesn't do it "just for the money". I understand he made his fortune early in bit-coin happen to know another who also derives a modest income from blockchain computing as well.
       Isn't there a thread here somewhere on him already? If he does use an anti-A it's "bicalutamide" which I took for years despite always being poo-told "no don't/can't do that it's not WPATH approved!" Imagine that -> actually using a drug, for once, as it was originally designed and intended for (may "spiro" be dammed)!

       Well KILLED my p-glad years ago always felt an "orchi" to be unnecessary often wear a bikini 'round the house sunbathing and "ex" always swears/complains "so, where did it go"?

       

      Plz tell me someone else here has also seen the movie "Orlando" (1992) which is based on Virginia Wolf's original 1928 novel? It's a romantic transgender allegory about unrequited love until the main character, who utimately lives for 400 years, magically . .

"awakens to find that he has metamorphosed into a woman – the same person,
with the same personality and intellect, but in a woman's body."

There can be no doubt about his sex, despite the feminine appearance that every young man at the time aspires too.

Well lol think it was originally written/intended as a feminist plot, reversed from the way we currently understand "transgender", in the more FtM sense that any woman can indeed have the same *smarts* as men in spite of "which body"!
       Yes! And we do need to talk more about "comorbidities" because don't feel I fit into the common narrative of either here or there. Never did experience excessive "dysphoria", the only exception being when intoxicated on a certain "no lie" drug, am a firm believer in the idea of "informed consent" BUT "social life  success" in general should certainly be the final arbitor and if indeed one needs a RLE than something there is definitely AMISS . .

Is this not a very "ole school" concept in forever remaining within "mainstream"? (am afraid to ask Christine what exactly 'nudist camp' abjected to . . 'invite' lost in email?)