Author Topic: Protocols  (Read 12030 times)

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Offline zirconia

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Protocols
« on: May 25, 2020, 07:26:57 AM »
So... I'm the famously supreme creator of imaginative and intriguing topic names... LOL
Should anyone have a better suggestion just let me know.

I think the most difficult problem is when and what to do and HOW, once a very clear understanding has been reached as to the extent and the nature of the problem.
In order to address this problem, all political correction must go out the window.

All co-morbidities must be taken into account and dealt with before any consideration of any potential psycho-sexual disconnect.
What this means is that the vast majority of what's been installed into the WPATH bible of cliches and personal projections by the gay and lesbians authors must accompany the PC rhetoric OUT THE WINDOW.
How's that for starters?

I've described my experience with "gatekeeping" and how... edifying, I guess... it felt to me. But it wasn't the protocols that made it so. It was the doctors. I couldn't believe how closely they paid attention to every word I said. Not failing to challenge anything that seemed incongruent or worrisome... but compassionate and understanding throughout.

Even the weakest link—a new psychiatric nurse—possessed a slower but deep comprehension of what I wanted my words to convey. She was a veteran in psychiatry, but I was her first patient at the evaluation unit.

The psychologist I was the least in contact with. But I was surprised at how she smilingly picked up on things that most hurt, or alternatively send thrills through my spine. Like some (non-platonic) details of my (platonic) relationship with the first boy who didn't write me off as a weirdo... LOL... I now actually regret not being able to talk with her more... but a decision had been made to not waste any unnecessary resources on me.

And... I think that is important. Flexibility. My first diagnosis was "F64.0, transsexualism, Primary, Permanent." It was temporarily amended to 64.9  (indeterminate gender incongruence) for the duration of screening... but it seemed to me the department chief had made up her mind before we'd even walked from the waiting room to her office door.

It's actually strange... I really wanted to be rushed through. And was elated when I was. But now that I know I can be made whole I've gained patience. I do want it to happen today. But the knowledge that it will happen makes the wait bearable.


Ugh. This is becoming a ramble. Let's try again.


So. I guess I feel that:
The purpose of evaluation should be elimination of regretters.
The evaluation protocols should be comprehensive enough to accomplish that purpose.
The doctors applying the protocols should be skillful enough to know when to make judgment calls.
And they should also be personable enough to gain the trust of those being evaluated.


Yes... I'm very biased. And "fortunate" I guess, because I clearly was considered an open and shut case despite the pain I felt. But I'd like to believe that had the doctors found any problems I would not have walked away in a huff. Because I hope I could still have seen that they truly cared.


So... what would I have felt like were I rejected? Would I have accepted it?
Hmmmm....

I guess that I'd have felt disappointed. And done what I'm doing anyway. Go private. Abroad... LOL. Because I know what I need. And what the system provides is inadequate anyway. The whole process would just become a LOT more complicated, since everything about transition is now codified in law.


Ugh. I'm rambling again... too sleeepy... But.


There are always doctors who are willing to take money and do what the patient wants. Some are excellent. Some are awful. Caveat emptor.

However, when discussing public health I feel it should always be kept in mind that there are people whom transition does not help. One such locally famous F2M2F activist insists that instead of evaluation everyone who seeks treatment should be sent to therapy... and she has A LOT of followers. And is featured on TV. And... she truly has been broken by the experience. There must be vastly more those who simply suffer in silence. Or make forums their permanent home.

And that can create problems for everyone who does need treatment. It skews the picture.


I've written so many times of my horror of what I call the twilight zone. A destination where one is neither male nor female. To some it is comfortable. True. To many, actually. Maybe even most. But... when sold as the terminal station for everyone it can be poison. And when one enters it by mistake it can be deadly.


I don't know how to close this. Other than to once again repeat that there are different needs. And that's been said by others before. And it's what to do about it that counts. And I can't think of a foolproof way to ensure that they'd be recognized and accommodated for.


So I guess I'll just go to sleep for now. Have fun, everyone... See you later...

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2020, 08:24:04 AM »
Great job, Zirconia. You have addressed THEE question: How to evaluate, and how to treat.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 09:24:37 AM by Complete »

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2020, 10:47:38 AM »
"Protocols" and the correct and valid methodologies....hmmmm....these are just the musings that hurt feelings, create adversarial relationships and illicit solipistic opinion. What could go wrong?....lol

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2020, 11:42:46 AM »
"Protocols" and the correct and valid methodologies....hmmmm....these are just the musings that hurt feelings, create adversarial relationships and illicit solipistic opinion. What could go wrong?....lol
Given the normal atmosphere on your standard "inclusive/supportive" trans-forum, where only the standard mantra is allowed, l would agree that the expected result would be a very loud chorus of shouts and accusations of bigotry, elitism, transphobia etc. ad nauseum.
The hope here is that maybe, just maybe, reason might prevail.
Zirconia has offered us an opening to explore these forbidden questions.
We actually have some diversity of experience here, quite a trove really, ranging from very early Type VI to what l might classify as very intense type IV, although l really don't know enough about your journey other than it took you a while to finally find your way.

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2020, 11:45:53 AM »
As for "hurt feelings"...grow up.
Adversarial relationships....dont need them. Don't waste my time.
Solipistic opinions....spare me. Haven't we heard enough?

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2020, 12:19:43 PM »
Actually, I don't get hurt feelings by these kinds of things. I've just witnessed others getting pretty worked up when a particular narrative doesn't match theirs. I have some pretty fixed ideals about the entirety of the Rainbow and I have found them to be less than popular. Consequently, I keep pretty cloistered.
      In regards to this stuff. I think I'll observe for a while and see how it all plays. My intention here is to enjoy camraderie with you fine folk and not to pontificate nor spread my ideals/opinions as fact. I hope you're right, Complete. I would love to see these things get discussed without heated passions interference.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2020, 12:54:49 PM »
"l really don't know enough about your journey other than it took you a while to finally find your way."

I appreciate that. Let's just say, I always knew and due to many factors, discarded most of my life. Circumstance seemingly determines so much behavior. But I'm still here, still standing.
As they say, if you can't be smart, you better be tough. I am...the latter, I mean.☺

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2020, 01:25:05 PM »
Quote
Actually, I don't get hurt feelings by these kinds of things. I've just witnessed others getting pretty worked up when a particular narrative doesn't match theirs.

I understand and agree. I am hoping we can move past that silencing technique.
Quote
I think I'll observe for a while and see how it all plays.
Hmmm....Yes. It will be interesting to see how things play out. What must be understood is that all my prattling here are just that: musings. Highly biased ones at that, as they come from my own personal experience.
My way, my perceptions, my opinions are just that. MINE. They are not to be seen as THEE WAY.  They are not. They are only my way.
What mattersb IMHO,  is the end result. Are you happy? Are you at peace? That, l believe, is the goal.
Quote
But I'm still here, still standing.
As they say, if you can't be smart, you better be tough. I am...the latter, I mean.☺
I agree. Tough is absolutely a requisite to survival.
Might l also suggest focus, persistence and determination as needed qualities.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2020, 01:37:42 PM »
Quote
Might l also suggest focus, persistence and determination as needed qualities.   

Those are the most prescient qualities of all. Fuel for the fire, if you will. Without them, just wasted time

Offline zirconia

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2020, 02:42:30 PM »
Dena❣️
 
Look... it's working *・゜゚・*:.。..。.:*・'(*゚▽゚*)'・*:.。. .。.:*・゜゚・*
An honest, straight and civil beginning to a conversation on a subject generally apt to cause instant head explosions a la Mars Attacks!!!!

Yay! ٩( ᐛ )و

I was so sleepy last night that I forgot to include one important item in my tentative suggestion list.

The patient should be a participant in the evaluation process.

It was absolutely clear that the doctors wanted to help me. Not just judge me. We worked together to explore me, and I felt treated as an equal. And it probably was that fact that made me feel so very safe and at ease...

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2020, 02:53:10 PM »
Hi Zirconia, Would you want to share what country you're in? It might give us more perspective and help us understand your experiences?

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2020, 03:22:20 PM »
I want to jump on here because l think, like Zirconia said, it's more about the doctor(s), than the protocol.
Protocol are methodologies. Suggested methodologies. l started my quest for a "solution" in the very late 60s in rural America.
What made me so fortunate was that the very first contact l had with a medical professional was that he actually listened....to the whole sordid tale.
He then, based on what l perceived to be my best possible course of action, (l wanted to be cured), began to try various therapies/approaches, to "curing" me.
When the first two courses of treatment failed, resulting in near suicidal depression, he referred me to Stanford, which was the nearest source to engage with the then nacent "gender dysphoria" research program.
Not having the funds nor the inclination to engage in long term "research", l found other options abroad. By early 1973, l was a happy and fully functional young woman.

Offline zirconia

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2020, 03:29:18 PM »
Hi Zirconia, Would you want to share what country you're in? It might give us more perspective and help us understand your experiences?

Hi Antisthenes

I had to think a bit about what to reply. While I'd very much like to give credit to the team looking after me, I feel it better not to.

Like I said, they do also send people to resolve other problems first. And from what I've seen they don't do it lightly. And they're under intense political pressure to let everyone through.

Thus, I think keeping them anonymous is better... They really don't need anyone using my posts as grounds to demand identical treatment. I want to do what I can to enable them to continue to concentrate on looking at each individual patient and judge what is best without that kind of leverage being applied to them.

I hope you understand.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2020, 03:52:28 PM »
Not a problem. Everyone's privacy is paramount.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2020, 08:11:14 PM »
I want to jump on here because l think, like Zirconia said, it's more about the doctor(s), than the protocol.
Protocol are methodologies. Suggested methodologies. l started my quest for a "solution" in the very late 60s in rural America.
What made me so fortunate was that the very first contact l had with a medical professional was that he actually listened....to the whole sordid tale.
He then, based on what l perceived to be my best possible course of action, (l wanted to be cured), began to try various therapies/approaches, to "curing" me.
When the first two courses of treatment failed, resulting in near suicidal depression, he referred me to Stanford, which was the nearest source to engage with the then nacent "gender dysphoria" research program.
Not having the funds nor the inclination to engage in long term "research", l found other options abroad. By early 1973, l was a happy and fully functional young woman.



Goodness....I feel like I'm talking with Christine Jorgensen. The fact that you had that kind of single mindedness of purpose with so few prior to you to use as examples is just amazing. 1973 was spent by me in various libraries pouring over microfiche in an effort to find something, anything I could about why I was the way I was. That year was your salvation and my long road to despair.

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2020, 08:29:04 PM »
Jorgensen was in 54 l think. There was nothing there when l looked except Jorgensen Or Lile
Elbe.
All l knew was that it was possible. My biggest concern besides the logistics of course was anonymity. I could not end up like Jorgensen

Offline Christine

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2020, 08:39:00 PM »
Hi Folks,                 25 May 2020

I try not to post on other's threads, but the discussion here is very important. All we really want to say is Thank You all. If we were over on one of the other forums there would be a war brewing. We are grateful you all are here and proving sensitive ideas can be discussed openly, without fear and in a friendly manner.

Thanks Again, God Bless You All.

Best Always, Love

Dena and Christine
Worrying Never Makes It Better.
Contact:
Christine@transhaven.org

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2020, 08:45:10 PM »
And thank you two for providing a safe place to have discussion, Christine.

Offline Antisthenes

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2020, 08:52:41 PM »
Jorgensen was in 54 l think. There was nothing there when l looked except Jorgensen Or Lile
Elbe.
All l knew was that it was possible. My biggest concern besides the logistics of course was anonymity. I could not end up like Jorgensen

I found so much limited information. Seemingly everyone was either a Dancer or a Showgirl. I had no  desire to be either and couldn't imagine being a sex worker to attain my hope. I knew who I was but the disconnect I found left me confused.  There also seemed no resources for change. At the tender age of 14 there was certainly no support from my family. Actually, to the contrary. 

Offline Complete

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Re: Protocols
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2020, 08:54:23 PM »
I stopped worrying about the why, and just focused on stopping the internal/suppressed insanity. It had to be done. I knows it's cliche, but l really had no choice but to try and get things fixed. Whatever the cost.